Okaaayy. So those of us who understand that the creators of Project 2025, the dark money billionaires, and the judiciary that’s been poisoned by rightwing extremists are ACTUAL threats to democracy, and that there is a concerted and well-funded movement to turn America into a Christian Nationalist white-ruled autocracy/theocracy — with or without Trump — are merely delusional worrywarts? We just need to understand that the “rule of law” and Constitutional precedent will save us? Have you noticed SCOTUS’ latest rulings? Like the immunity one that defies legal logic and the Dobbs one that trashed precedent? Are you aware of the MAGAfication of law enforcement, the sovereign citizen movement, and the presence of MAGA loyalists in the military?
Yeah, call me whatever you want: Cry baby, delusional liberal, whatever. There is a direct threat to our nation’s existence by neo-fascists with money and arms. I for one am gonna be worried af and do whatever I can to prevent their nightmarish plans.
Those of us who have studied history know how dangerously naive this thinking is. Relying on the guardrails of a vague and rickety 18 century document written to assuage the concerns of enslavers is hardly comforting. The Supreme Court that interprets it is hopelessly corrupt and interpreted it in a way that provides for unlimited presidential power. There is nothing, nothing, standing in the way of a violent and extreme Trump dictatorship. But if it makes you feel better, there’s about a 50/50 chance it doesn’t happen.
I don’t know. People never change. They’ve been the same thousands of years. That’s why you can see certain behaviors that are quite consistent and predict what’s going to happen.
Thank you, Zachary. If I were to sign your yearbook, I'd say, "Don't ever change," because I am sure each time you talk or write about this, people respond with variations of: "NO, you should be terrified," or "No, this person is actually evil and that person will actually save us." But having evaluated my partisan paradigm over the past eight years, and after having conversations with many people I disagree with, my instincts say that you're the one who's right. Your articles make me feel less alone. So again, thank you.
Your description of dinners with friends in NYC vs Texas is right on. If everyone would stop rolling their eyes and mimicking fund-raiser propaganda, and start talking about what really matters and actual candidate past performance, we’d get closer to electing the better of the two candidates.
This is exactly what my family and many of their neighbors and friends thought a hundred years ago. "Sure he's a lunatic but he offers some benefits to us personally and society will never allow his extreme rhetoric to become reality." For anyone who does not have close personal ties to how good people can look the other way, you might want to read this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25903340-1924
By and large, their idealism notwithstanding, people prefer dictators. They offer two clear benefits: 1. They offer us a "Them" to blame for our own difficulties or misfortune and 2. When our lives turn ugly we can find comfort that it's not our fault. The dictator is creating our misery. In short - dictatorships relieve us of the responsibility and hard work that comes with democracy - so we can just go on with our lives.
Of course the past is not a template for the future. The Third Reich didn't have the tools of drones, pinhole surveillance cameras, cell phones that recognize our voices, and the voluntary abandonment of privacy that social media has unleashed. Germany in 1924 was not the most powerful nation on earth, nor did it have nuclear weapons. There was no NATO to abandon.
So will this time be the same? Not likely, becasue "every time history repeats itself - the price goes up."
The problem is that a large percentage of voters on the right have convinced themselves that *other people's* votes shouldn't count, because those people aren't real Americans. Thus the popularity of racist myths about illegal immigrants committing voter fraud -- which is of a piece with the other racist myths central to the modern American right. The historical frequency of demagogues using such myths to justify illiberal, brutal authoritarian rule is what makes so many of us in the civilized, aka non Trumpist, portions of America so fearful. And pointing out that even the Trumpists are nominally committed to democracy for themselves isn't a convincing response to that fear.
You say you would be more concerned if officials of the state showed up at your door because of something you said or wrote. That is happening in Florida under Gov. Ron DeSantis; his "election police" are showing up at the homes of those who signed petitions for Amendment 4, to restore pre-Dobbs abortion status, inquiring whether they really signed those petitions under the guise of preventing fraud. Those are signatures that had already been vetted by local supervisors of election, so the conclusion those who are visited have drawn is that this is intimidation.
At last, a reasonable response to the handwringing near-hysteria enveloping this presidential election. If Trump is elected, we’ll get exactly what we got last time—policies that some will approve and some won’t, many of which won’t come to fruition because Democrats wouldn’t support a Trump policy no matter whether it provided some benefit to Americans or not. Ridiculous, humiliating statements on the world stage, a few more miles of wall to go with the few miles from his last term, and Americans figuring out who really pays tariffs are the biggest problems Americans will face. Without a hero Republican, John McCain, to stand up to him and a Republican thorn in his side, Mitt Romney, to stand against all the cowtowing Republicans, we’ll have to rely on self-serving Democrats, but I think four years of extreme gridlock is what we’ll see. America can survive four years of Donald Trump. I fear for Ukraine, but I note that no one here seems too concerned about them, so I won’t go into that. Our democracy will survive this demagogue. What we ought to be worried about is what kind of national dialogue and journalism alienated half of our country to the point where they see Donald Trump as a good thing, because they will still be here after Mr. Trump is gone. We’re long past due to try to understand the fears and concerns of these people, and to address them with something other than derision. (One good thing at least, stock markets generally love gridlock because it means politicians won’t be affecting the corporate status quo, so we’ll likely see some excellent returns there for those in a position to profit from it.)
Well, of course, as a man, your rights remain intact. What about the other half of the country? Woman have had their right to bodily autonomy stolen with the stroke of a pen. Women have DIED because these fascists have decided who gets to make decisions for women and girls. And have you even read project 2025? Who cares if the majority of the people would tolerate the taking away of their vote? Project 2025 was written by fascist all loyal to Donald Trump because he is easily manipulated because he is an idiot. They have already got their plans in place to remove freedoms that have been identified as inalienable for over two centuries! There is going to be any vote!! You should be a lot more scared if you really care about this country, but maybe you’re so blasé because like many American men, if you’re okay, you don’t give a damn about the rest of us.
That’s a seriously hostile response. A democracy that collectively (at a state level) denies a group certain rights is unjust but it is still democracy and it’s also why multiple red states (Kansas etc) are democratically galvanizing - led by women - to push back against Dobbs etc. But thanks for lashing out
It’s definitely frustrating for women who feel like they’re being pushed backwards as far as rights go. And it seems to be true that if a person is a White Male who was born in the USA they have nothing to fear when the rest of us… well, the rest of us are afraid that our friends and families are going to be harassed, attacked, threatened, and God knows what else because we are “other.” I can’t imagine the hell that being a LGBTQ person of color is today in America. Isn’t that sad?
@Karabell But they’re not doing it in a Democratic way . You know there has been serious gerrymandering, voter purging and all kinds of activities to make it harder for many types of people to vote, including women; and the provision that was just in the SAVE act regarding women who changed their names for marriage, but don’t have proper proper documentation. You know that there are a lot of ways that things can be chipped at until the big effect is had, which we are having right now. People are dying while these states are trying to “galvanize voters”. I’d like to see if you can reframe or explain where you are on this part of it, the part about women’s rights and soon to be LGBTQ and trans rights that are being legislated out because of the inequities in the Democratic voting system.
Give some space for people who feel emotional about their bodily autonomy. Take a step before you too, do the thing that you named ‘lashing out ‘ .
Big picture thinking is good, and the decisions are in the details. The issue of bodily autonomy rights is not details. It’s a big part of the big picture. If Trump gets in, we will be looking at fetal personhood. Which means that the prospect of a fertilized egg, just the prospect of it, will have more rights than a woman who may carry it.
I wrote a piece arguing that democracy is not in danger in the US, contrary to widespread fears on all sides that it is. There are many other issues that democracy doesn't solve and indeed can exacerbate. Democracies can oppress minorities, and a minority in American democracy can wield excessive influences. Democracies can make cruel and illiberal laws, whether Jim Crow in the South or aspects of anti-abortion laws today. Every piece that highlights something positive can't be held to account because it doesn't then speak to everything that isn't positive. I get that it may roil some people to say that Trump in particular may not be the level of threat he would like to be, but if someone then attacks my motives or societal position because they don't agree, that is lashing out. Everyone is entitled to feel what they feel, but how we act on those feelings matters as well. And indeed, in this forum, everyone is free to say what they want, but I try and I hope others do as well, to engage people with some degree of good faith.
I think you’re largely underestimating how many people are entranced by the cult and manipulation of Trump. This is a psychological problem more so than a political one. That said, no one votes for authoritarianism. But chipping away at democratic norms certainly opens the door. The problem is once an autocratic walks through the door we allowed him to open, he doesn’t just leave because we want him too.
Have you read Timothy Snyder's, On Tyranny? I would like to get your take on his historical analysis of the lessons to be learned from Germany in the 30's, Czechoslovakia in the 40's, and Russia in the 90's. "History may not repeat itself, but it rhymes." (Mark Twain)
Perhaps we wouldn't lose our democracy completely as many fear, but to focus on the parallel reality of what voters on both sides fear and brush aside the very real damage another Trump presidency could do seems to me more glib than reassuring. And it can't be ignored that Trump is the logical conclusion of almost 50 years of Republicans chiseling away at our constitution and the quality of life for millions of Americans. Free speech is not much of a consolation when one's daily life is threatened by insurmountable obstacles.
Okaaayy. So those of us who understand that the creators of Project 2025, the dark money billionaires, and the judiciary that’s been poisoned by rightwing extremists are ACTUAL threats to democracy, and that there is a concerted and well-funded movement to turn America into a Christian Nationalist white-ruled autocracy/theocracy — with or without Trump — are merely delusional worrywarts? We just need to understand that the “rule of law” and Constitutional precedent will save us? Have you noticed SCOTUS’ latest rulings? Like the immunity one that defies legal logic and the Dobbs one that trashed precedent? Are you aware of the MAGAfication of law enforcement, the sovereign citizen movement, and the presence of MAGA loyalists in the military?
Yeah, call me whatever you want: Cry baby, delusional liberal, whatever. There is a direct threat to our nation’s existence by neo-fascists with money and arms. I for one am gonna be worried af and do whatever I can to prevent their nightmarish plans.
But thanks for weighing in.
Thank you for weighing in. QED
Those of us who have studied history know how dangerously naive this thinking is. Relying on the guardrails of a vague and rickety 18 century document written to assuage the concerns of enslavers is hardly comforting. The Supreme Court that interprets it is hopelessly corrupt and interpreted it in a way that provides for unlimited presidential power. There is nothing, nothing, standing in the way of a violent and extreme Trump dictatorship. But if it makes you feel better, there’s about a 50/50 chance it doesn’t happen.
Well I have studied history. And it is also dangerously naive to think that the lessons of the past are clear or scan easily onto the present.
I don’t know. People never change. They’ve been the same thousands of years. That’s why you can see certain behaviors that are quite consistent and predict what’s going to happen.
Thank you, Zachary. If I were to sign your yearbook, I'd say, "Don't ever change," because I am sure each time you talk or write about this, people respond with variations of: "NO, you should be terrified," or "No, this person is actually evil and that person will actually save us." But having evaluated my partisan paradigm over the past eight years, and after having conversations with many people I disagree with, my instincts say that you're the one who's right. Your articles make me feel less alone. So again, thank you.
Your description of dinners with friends in NYC vs Texas is right on. If everyone would stop rolling their eyes and mimicking fund-raiser propaganda, and start talking about what really matters and actual candidate past performance, we’d get closer to electing the better of the two candidates.
This is exactly what my family and many of their neighbors and friends thought a hundred years ago. "Sure he's a lunatic but he offers some benefits to us personally and society will never allow his extreme rhetoric to become reality." For anyone who does not have close personal ties to how good people can look the other way, you might want to read this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25903340-1924
By and large, their idealism notwithstanding, people prefer dictators. They offer two clear benefits: 1. They offer us a "Them" to blame for our own difficulties or misfortune and 2. When our lives turn ugly we can find comfort that it's not our fault. The dictator is creating our misery. In short - dictatorships relieve us of the responsibility and hard work that comes with democracy - so we can just go on with our lives.
Of course the past is not a template for the future. The Third Reich didn't have the tools of drones, pinhole surveillance cameras, cell phones that recognize our voices, and the voluntary abandonment of privacy that social media has unleashed. Germany in 1924 was not the most powerful nation on earth, nor did it have nuclear weapons. There was no NATO to abandon.
So will this time be the same? Not likely, becasue "every time history repeats itself - the price goes up."
The problem is that a large percentage of voters on the right have convinced themselves that *other people's* votes shouldn't count, because those people aren't real Americans. Thus the popularity of racist myths about illegal immigrants committing voter fraud -- which is of a piece with the other racist myths central to the modern American right. The historical frequency of demagogues using such myths to justify illiberal, brutal authoritarian rule is what makes so many of us in the civilized, aka non Trumpist, portions of America so fearful. And pointing out that even the Trumpists are nominally committed to democracy for themselves isn't a convincing response to that fear.
You say you would be more concerned if officials of the state showed up at your door because of something you said or wrote. That is happening in Florida under Gov. Ron DeSantis; his "election police" are showing up at the homes of those who signed petitions for Amendment 4, to restore pre-Dobbs abortion status, inquiring whether they really signed those petitions under the guise of preventing fraud. Those are signatures that had already been vetted by local supervisors of election, so the conclusion those who are visited have drawn is that this is intimidation.
At last, a reasonable response to the handwringing near-hysteria enveloping this presidential election. If Trump is elected, we’ll get exactly what we got last time—policies that some will approve and some won’t, many of which won’t come to fruition because Democrats wouldn’t support a Trump policy no matter whether it provided some benefit to Americans or not. Ridiculous, humiliating statements on the world stage, a few more miles of wall to go with the few miles from his last term, and Americans figuring out who really pays tariffs are the biggest problems Americans will face. Without a hero Republican, John McCain, to stand up to him and a Republican thorn in his side, Mitt Romney, to stand against all the cowtowing Republicans, we’ll have to rely on self-serving Democrats, but I think four years of extreme gridlock is what we’ll see. America can survive four years of Donald Trump. I fear for Ukraine, but I note that no one here seems too concerned about them, so I won’t go into that. Our democracy will survive this demagogue. What we ought to be worried about is what kind of national dialogue and journalism alienated half of our country to the point where they see Donald Trump as a good thing, because they will still be here after Mr. Trump is gone. We’re long past due to try to understand the fears and concerns of these people, and to address them with something other than derision. (One good thing at least, stock markets generally love gridlock because it means politicians won’t be affecting the corporate status quo, so we’ll likely see some excellent returns there for those in a position to profit from it.)
Well, of course, as a man, your rights remain intact. What about the other half of the country? Woman have had their right to bodily autonomy stolen with the stroke of a pen. Women have DIED because these fascists have decided who gets to make decisions for women and girls. And have you even read project 2025? Who cares if the majority of the people would tolerate the taking away of their vote? Project 2025 was written by fascist all loyal to Donald Trump because he is easily manipulated because he is an idiot. They have already got their plans in place to remove freedoms that have been identified as inalienable for over two centuries! There is going to be any vote!! You should be a lot more scared if you really care about this country, but maybe you’re so blasé because like many American men, if you’re okay, you don’t give a damn about the rest of us.
That’s a seriously hostile response. A democracy that collectively (at a state level) denies a group certain rights is unjust but it is still democracy and it’s also why multiple red states (Kansas etc) are democratically galvanizing - led by women - to push back against Dobbs etc. But thanks for lashing out
It’s definitely frustrating for women who feel like they’re being pushed backwards as far as rights go. And it seems to be true that if a person is a White Male who was born in the USA they have nothing to fear when the rest of us… well, the rest of us are afraid that our friends and families are going to be harassed, attacked, threatened, and God knows what else because we are “other.” I can’t imagine the hell that being a LGBTQ person of color is today in America. Isn’t that sad?
@Karabell But they’re not doing it in a Democratic way . You know there has been serious gerrymandering, voter purging and all kinds of activities to make it harder for many types of people to vote, including women; and the provision that was just in the SAVE act regarding women who changed their names for marriage, but don’t have proper proper documentation. You know that there are a lot of ways that things can be chipped at until the big effect is had, which we are having right now. People are dying while these states are trying to “galvanize voters”. I’d like to see if you can reframe or explain where you are on this part of it, the part about women’s rights and soon to be LGBTQ and trans rights that are being legislated out because of the inequities in the Democratic voting system.
Give some space for people who feel emotional about their bodily autonomy. Take a step before you too, do the thing that you named ‘lashing out ‘ .
Big picture thinking is good, and the decisions are in the details. The issue of bodily autonomy rights is not details. It’s a big part of the big picture. If Trump gets in, we will be looking at fetal personhood. Which means that the prospect of a fertilized egg, just the prospect of it, will have more rights than a woman who may carry it.
I wrote a piece arguing that democracy is not in danger in the US, contrary to widespread fears on all sides that it is. There are many other issues that democracy doesn't solve and indeed can exacerbate. Democracies can oppress minorities, and a minority in American democracy can wield excessive influences. Democracies can make cruel and illiberal laws, whether Jim Crow in the South or aspects of anti-abortion laws today. Every piece that highlights something positive can't be held to account because it doesn't then speak to everything that isn't positive. I get that it may roil some people to say that Trump in particular may not be the level of threat he would like to be, but if someone then attacks my motives or societal position because they don't agree, that is lashing out. Everyone is entitled to feel what they feel, but how we act on those feelings matters as well. And indeed, in this forum, everyone is free to say what they want, but I try and I hope others do as well, to engage people with some degree of good faith.
Exactly, I would like to see the author weigh in on this .
If one would look at the interview of Trump saying "dictator for one day" it is easier to see the context is not what is generally given out.
I think you’re largely underestimating how many people are entranced by the cult and manipulation of Trump. This is a psychological problem more so than a political one. That said, no one votes for authoritarianism. But chipping away at democratic norms certainly opens the door. The problem is once an autocratic walks through the door we allowed him to open, he doesn’t just leave because we want him too.
Have you read Timothy Snyder's, On Tyranny? I would like to get your take on his historical analysis of the lessons to be learned from Germany in the 30's, Czechoslovakia in the 40's, and Russia in the 90's. "History may not repeat itself, but it rhymes." (Mark Twain)
Perhaps we wouldn't lose our democracy completely as many fear, but to focus on the parallel reality of what voters on both sides fear and brush aside the very real damage another Trump presidency could do seems to me more glib than reassuring. And it can't be ignored that Trump is the logical conclusion of almost 50 years of Republicans chiseling away at our constitution and the quality of life for millions of Americans. Free speech is not much of a consolation when one's daily life is threatened by insurmountable obstacles.
Censorship is the first step
Just bull!